cafe chat - indie comic creator MOC
· 15-minute read
today we have MOC (mira ong chua) in for a chat about their comics, in particular their latest comic, THE COSMIC BALLAD OF LAYLA + AIRY!
who's speaking?
MOC
npckc
introduction
This is a virtual interview, but if you could pretend for a moment that we're in a cafe that can serve any drink you want, what would you like to order? Personally, I'm writing this fairly late at night, so I'm in the mood for some decaf coffee.
Oh man! I went to a new cafe the other day and got this iced coffee that had coconut cream and salt and a little bit of mint. I thought it'd be weird, but it was so good and I can't stop thinking about it.
Wow, that sounds delicious... I feel like salt goes so well in drinks and it should really be used more! Now, could you give a brief introduction of yourself?
Hello! I'm MOC (Mira Ong Chua.) I'm a story artist and indie comic creator from Los Angeles. I make stories about a lot of things, but generally they center around queer romance and gender non-conforming characters.
OK, actually, this is something I've been curious about for a while too... Do you read that as M-O-C (em-oh-see) or more like Moc (mock)?
I always imagined it the first way, like the letters, but even to me it sounds a little clunky. Actually, whenever someone comes up to me at a con they just say "Are you Mira?" (Although I'm happy to be called that too!)
drawing comics & self-publishing
M-O-C then! It's good to know. I first found out about you through your comics - I think Vampire Blood Drive is the first one I read! What got you into drawing comics?
Before I drew comics, I was working in the TV animation industry here in the US as a storyboard artist. I was pretty immature and had the vague, delusional idea that someday I'd get to produce my own cartoon. Over the years, though, I watched a ton of my seniors pitch amazing, unique ideas to the networks, and very often get rejected for reasons that–to put it lightly–seemed pretty fucking stupid to me. Through watching them, I decided that waiting for someone else's permission to make my dream project wasn't something I was willing to develop the patience or tenacity for. I'd always been more of a "comic reader" than a "cartoon watcher," anyway, so turning to indie comics felt natural.
Not waiting for someone else's permission - I love that. And I get you re: pitches... It's similar in games where I'll hear friends sharing incredible ideas that end up getting shot down because they can't get them funded and it'll be stuff like "not relatable enough" and meanwhile I'll be thinking - millions of people who are not short Italian plumbers are happily playing games as a short Italian plumber - we can relate to anything if we want to.
I think comics are great because if you want to draw them, you can just go and do it. I'm really glad you got into it because I love reading your comics!
If you don't mind me asking, kc, I'd love to hear about how you got into making games. Was that the first creative medium you were drawn to, or were you originally interested in something else?
I'd say my first creative medium was writing, because I was writing fanfic since I was very young! I'd just write stories in paper notebooks which are probably lost to time now. For me, going from writing to games - specifically visual novels - was really just an extension of that! Stories with extra visuals. I think visual novels for me may be similar to comics for you, in that they're something I can just go and make without any outside 'permission' as such. It's my go-to medium whenever I want to tell a story lately.
Kickstarter runs on an all-or-nothing model, meaning you have to hit your funding goal by the deadline– otherwise, you get nothing. When I do these campaigns, I'm trying to convince folks to take a chance on stories and characters they know nothing about, which can feel pretty intimidating both for myself and the prospective reader. So I'm very intentional when designing every aspect of each campaign–like the colors, the types of merch, and obviously the book itself– in hopes that the right people will see it and say "That looks like something I'd enjoy." It's a new challenge every time, but it's something I have a lot of fun with. And I'm always grateful when people put their trust in my new ideas.
Your campaigns always look incredible so it definitely comes through! I remember seeing the LAYLA + AIRY trailer and being reminded of old anime and also cartoons, especially with the way the logo showed up.
It's so fun, right? All the cool trailer stuff came from my video editor, Lucia Retamales. After I sent her the artwork, she was immediately like "Let's do some VHS effects," "Let's make it like old public domain footage," "Let's paint the panels like Rumiko Takahashi's illustrations." Something I miss about working on cartoons is the collaboration part, so I'm really grateful to still get to work with amazing artists.
kc, I remember a while ago you were selling copies of one of your games, Marron's Day, on physical cartridges, which I thought was so unique. The decrease in physical media releases is something people talk about constantly here in the US– as an indie dev, how do you feel about it? Are you much of a physical media collector yourself?
I personally like physical media a lot, but I don't collect that much because of lack of space, haha. I buy a lot of ebooks lately! It doesn't have the same feeling though as actually holding a book in your hands and flipping through the pages, at least for me.
For Marron's Day, I really wanted it to be physical because that's how I personally experienced games as a kid - the feeling of sticking a cartridge or disc into your console and then it just boots up, no waiting for downloads or day one patches or whatever, and you get to play right away... Meanwhile I guess kids (? older kids, at least, with the age rating haha) will get GTA6 for Christmas and all there'll be inside is a download code.
I also think physical media is important precisely for people who might not have the space (or the funds). I know some libraries do also lend out ebooks which I appreciate, but usually the licensing terms for those are harsher than for physical books, and most libraries can't do digital games lending at all, but they might have a shelf for physical games and such. (Cutting myself off here before I go on a rant about digital licensing stuff 🙈)
For indie games specifically, most games will never get a physical release, so honestly I think that people should just make their own physical backups! Burn your fave game onto a CD or pop it onto a USB stick. Write the title on it, stick a couple of stickers, and hey - you have your own one-of-a-kind physical release, and it'll always be yours.
Thank you so much! I always start by trying to write a single sentence that feels like it could become a complete story– usually, that means defining the protagonist's goal and obstacle. As an example, here's the sentence I landed on for my recent comic, THE COSMIC BALLAD OF LAYLA + AIRY:
"Layla tries to forget about Airy for good, but is dragged back to his side when Airy’s targeted by an evil fanclub."
(Normally, I'd describe the main characters a little more carefully, but in this case, I had already drawn a short comic introducing Layla and Airy that I planned to use as the first chapter of the book.)
From there, I spin that sentence into a paragraph that describes the beginning, middle, and end of the story. Then that paragraph gets expanded further and further until it becomes a full-length script.
Of course, the more detailed it gets, the more questions I have to find the answers to– like, how many characters are gonna be in the "evil fanclub"? What do the relationships between those new characters look like? Why are they targeting Airy, and how does Layla end up getting involved? It can get pretty complicated. As long as I have that single sentence I started with, though, I can usually pull myself back on track.
Throughout this whole process, I'm also collecting stuff for inspiration and reference, like anime, comics, and movies. I usually end up asking my partner or friends for help with this, especially if I'm working in an unfamiliar genre.
I love the evil fanclub members so much so it's cool to see how they came together! I know they have... well, not great intentions, haha, but I can't help but care for them too because you show us how they ended up becoming the way they are. (Trying to be vague to avoid spoilers - if you are reading this and haven't had a chance to meet the evil fanclub in LAYLA + AIRY yet, you can get the physical and digital versions of the comic on MOC's shop!)
from comics to games
kc, something I've always thought was cool about your games is how you're always finding new ways to blend interactivity with your storytelling. So likewise, how do you come up with your ideas? Does story or gameplay come first?
Thanks! As somebody who actually loves having silly minigames in visual novels, I have a lot of fun thinking up ones for my own. For most of my games that have a main gameplay mechanic, I usually have the idea for the gameplay framework first. For TRUE LOVE'S CURSE, for example, I wanted to make a game where you pick words out to match them together for something, and I thought about a story mechanic that would work with that and came up with casting magic.
It was pretty spontaneous. I had always wanted to try making a game and saw that NaNoRenO 2024 was starting, so I downloaded Ren'Py and just jumped in. Galaxy Ballerina was originally a short comic with no spoken dialogue, just narration, so I felt like it'd be easy to adapt into a visual novel-like project.
I love hearing about people jumping into games through game jams - I think they're such a great way to just give it a go and feels a lot more approachable! How would you say comic making compares with game making? What comes more easily, feels more difficult, works better in one medium vs the other, &c.
Honestly, when it comes to storytelling, I'll always prefer books and movies. What I think games do excel in, though, is exploration (or even just "movement") and personal challenge. Obviously not all games incorporate either–Galaxy Ballerina definitely doesn't–but those are the elements unique to the medium, and that I personally enjoy most about gaming. If I were to make a game again, I'd love for it to feel like something that couldn't exist as anything else but a game.
Exploration and personal challenge... That's a really good way of putting it. I definitely put stories together differently when I'm writing for visual novels than I would for something like a book, because I know the way the reader will experience them is different. This makes me want to see a media mix of one of your stories, where you have a comic version for the story you want to tell but also use other media to tell stories in the same world in ways tailored for each media!
I'd love to. I'm open to anything! Actually, when it comes to games, my dream is to do designs for some kind of arcade-style puzzle game or shmup someday. Like Money Puzzle Exchanger, but instead of a bunch of pretty girls on the character select screen, it's all guys in skimpy outfits. Maybe by saying that here, I'll speak it into existence...
I REALLY WANT TO PLAY THIS. Please exist!!! Actually, the reason I made my jam gam Megane Breaker (still unfinished, RIP...) is so that I could have an excuse to have art of guys in glasses, but I haven't got around to actually drawing more art (& also optimising the gameplay more because it's very laggy - don't use Ren'py screens to make a real-time game!). If I get back to that, maybe I will be in your DMs asking you if you'll do some commissions of bespectacled guys in skimpy outfits... 🙏
comics in translation
You recently had your comic THE COSMIC BALLAD OF LAYLA + AIRY translated into Japanese, and after that your game Galaxy Ballerina too. The game has many translations, but I believe LAYLA + AIRY has only been translated into Japanese at this point in time. Why Japanese?
I'm strictly self-published nowadays, but years ago, my debut comic ROADQUEEN: Eternal Roadtrip to Love was picked up by a North American manga publisher. After the release, they floated the idea of publishing the book in Japan, maybe even sending me out there– then COVID hit and everything evaporated. When I was whining about it to a friend, they were like "Why not just hire a translator yourself?" It took me ages to admit that they were right. Why not?
So in part, I think getting to work with Itsuki Horiuchi to release LAYLA + AIRY in Japanese gave me closure to this thing I was moping about for years, haha. I still want to visit a comic show over there, though! I also want to say how grateful I am to everyone who's volunteered their time and effort to translate Galaxy Ballerina into multiple languages. This was something I felt even at the time of release, but the indie games community seems really enthusiastic and welcoming.
It's awesome you were able to make it happen! (But now I also hope one day to see a ROADQUEEN translation in Japanese...!) I think your comics would definitely be a hit at comic shows here, so if you get a chance to table at COMITIA or something you absolutely should.
It's cool how Galaxy Ballerina is in so many languages now - I hope a lot of people can play it in the language of their choice. I think part of the way the medium works also makes it a lot easier to share translations, which is another small thing I love about games.
I'm always taken aback seeing my work reach folks around the world. It's a huge honor. Thank you so much for your support!
finally
On the topic of video games, to tie things up - if you were a monster in a video game, what would be your rare drop item?
My Costco Executive Membership card.
Sorry, MOC, but since I only have the regular Costco Gold Star card, I think I'm going to have to defeat you for your rare drop... 😂
I'd love for folks to check out my new comic, THE COSMIC BALLAD OF LAYLA + AIRY! It's a transgender boys-love story packed with slapstick comedy and sci-fi elements, and I had a lot of fun making it. And all my other work can be found on my homepage. Thank you so much for having me!
Thank you for chatting, MOC! I really enjoyed LAYLA + AIRY so seriously, if you are reading this and haven't read it yet, go check it out now!
you can find MOC's works at their online shop as well as on their itch.io page!
their latest comic, THE COSMIC BALAD OF LAYLA + AIRY, is available as a physical book as well as a digital pdf, and their game Galaxy Ballerina can be played in browser or downloaded on itch.io.